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Crypto-Currencies Are Poised To Radically Change Finance … And Reshape Nations

Crypto-Currencies Are Poised To Radically Change Finance … And Reshape Nations
Article by Forbes: Kurt Cagle & COGNITIVE WORLD In the 18th Century, a venture begun in England established an outpost in the New World around Hudson Bay. The Hudson Bay Company was given license by the crown to exploit the bounty of the Northernmost parts of North America, and eventually a trading network was built out, trading fur, woods, and mineral resources. This network manifested itself primarily through a series of forts that protected general stores, extending as far south and west as Oregon, along the Pacific Coast, forts that would in time become cities like Portland, Vancouver, Toronto and so forth.

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An example of Hudson Bay Company Scrip WIKIPEDIA The Hudson Bay Company used its own special scrip within its territory, the scrip holding value because it could be traded for British pounds as well as establishing more or less standard prices for goods. When Canada was founded in 1867, it established its territory by buying the land from the HBC, and making HBC’s scrip fully convertible to the new Canadian Dollar. In effect, a privately held scrip became the de facto currency of a nation. Empires, kings and potentates have long coveted the right to put their face on coins, but until comparatively recently, the value of those coins was determined primarily by the assayed weight of the metal that made them up. Indeed, the Dutch, during the 16th century, actually scored their gold coins so that a person could break it apart into octants, from whence was derived the term “Pieces of eight” so beloved in pirate tales. They also created coins from the silver mine of Joachim’s Valley (‘Joachimsthal’ in Dutch) which were in turn heavily used by first the Spanish territories then eventually English North America, the name frequently shorted first to ‘Thaler’, and then via Spanish as ‘Dollar’.

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Pieces-of-Eight, so named because the Spanish dollar coin of the 1600s was frequently broken upon into eight bits or reals, which in time became known as pesos (pieces). JAMESTOWN REDISCOVERY Following the death of Louis the Fourteenth of France, the French economy was in tatters given the financial excesses of the Sun King. The Duke of Orleans, the regent of the new five-year-old King Louis the Fifteen, turned to a friend, Scottish financier John Law, for help. Law, for his part, made a proposal that had been tried on a smaller scale, but never really at a national level: the concept of creating a paper currency, backed by the government and in theory redeemable with silver. While the experiment worked for a little while, speculators made the currency unstable, which was then exacerbated by the government producing more Francs than it could support, causing the currency to crash and significantly diminishing the ability of France to compete in the colonization in North America. It also destabilized the French court by reducing the influence of the King over his aristocrats, many of whom had been severely burned in the crash, and not coincidentally laying the groundwork for the French Revolution several decades later. Despite this, as Europe went from Feudal vassalages to nation-states, the ability to control the minting of paper currency based upon its status as a promissory note became one of the key prerogatives of nations. It was one of the reasons, when the first American Confederation, created in the aftermath of the US Revolutionary War, realized they needed a stronger government, the one thing that the Federal government reserved to itself rather than allow to the states was the exclusive right to mint coinage and currency.

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Currencies have long been the prerogative of nations, though that may be changing as electronic coinage hearkens back to most currencies’ merchantile roots. GETTY Fast-forward two hundred and fifty years, and you can see that history is in fact repeating itself. A currency system works by having a few essential characteristics: A note of currency must be unique and non-duplicatable. Currency must be readily redeemable — if not enough people will accept the currency as having a certain value, it cannot be used as a medium of exchange. Currency must be relatively stable — it holds roughly the same value over some time interval. These three conditions place some real constraints on currencies, though not always obvious ones. For instance, if you increase the supply of a given currency, you might think that it would dilute the value of that money. Maybe yes, maybe no. If demand is high for money, increasing the money supply may actually accelerate economic growth, though if demand for money is low, increasing the supply may simply cause inflation. If currency is only redeemable in certain places, then it has less utility as a store of value. If a currency has only half the value today that it had yesterday, then people will get rid of that currency quickly in favor of something that is more stable. It turns out, in fact, that most paper currencies don’t completely satisfy the above constraints over a long time period, and what’s worse, the relationship between money and value can be quite non-linear. This is because currency by itself represents buying power. A gallon of gas in 1971 cost twenty nine cents in most places. Today, that same gallon of gas costs $2.90. Ironically, a loaf of bread cost $.29 and $2.90 respectively as well. The average wage in 1971 was $10,000. Today, its $50,000. This is worth highlighting, though more from an economic rather than technical standpoint. Put in stark terms, the typical worker’s wages went up 400%, but the price of most goods went up 1000% percent over roughly the last fifty years (or, the money you earn is worth 60% less today than it was in 1971, relative to the cost of living). The actual utility of a gallon of gas has actually not changed much in that time, which means that what has changed is both buying power for a given amount of money, and the change in wages relative to the cost of goods. Why? That’s a topic for another time.

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Electronic currencies, such as BitCoin and Ethereum, rank high in their ability to guarantee uniqueness, but are struggling with exchangeability and are still very heavily influenced by speculators, making them less than ideal for stable currencies. GETTY IMAGES So, where do cryptocurrencies play into all of this? At the moment, of the three points highlighted above, cryptocurrencies arguably are really, really good with the first point, are getting better (though still not great) with the second point, but really suck on the last point. Consider this. One of the biggest arguments in favor of cryptocurrencies is that they are hard to forge. It’s possible — throw enough computation power at it and you could in fact do it, but the salient point is that the cost to do so likely outweighs the value of the coin. Now the downside to that is that many of the current mechanisms for determining uniqueness (such as mining prime numbers) are also very expensive, not just in terms of computational cycles but in terms of energy costs. It’s one of the reasons why a few of the primary coins actually are too large by themselves to be used for currency — you have to divide a coin up to say a 1000 different micro-coins to get to the point where you can buy a cup of coffee and a sweet roll at Starbucks, and this in turn still requires effective uniqueness algorithms. However, even with weaker algorithms for division, such micro-coins are still orders of magnitude harder to forge than your average US $20 bill, which is far and away the most popular currency in the world in terms of forgery. However, this point is actually becoming less and less of an issue for the simple reason that paper currency itself is becoming obsolete, except among the very poor (who often have difficulty in being able to set up bank accounts). For much of the latter twentieth century, credit cards made significant inroads in eliminating paper currency, and most recently, the introduction of chipped cards, both credit and debit, have significantly reduced the incidences of fraud. The bigger issue today is online card fraud, though even there, the introduction of electronic wallets (and the growing liability that retailers are facing with each hacking incident via class action suits) are spurring much better encryption of data, as well as better control by consumers. This is not to say that credit card fraud isn’t still a problem, but it is a problem that shows signs of abating. Another, perhaps far more reaching consequence of the rise of credit cards, debit cards, digital rewards cards, gift cards and EBTs has been that it has been destroying the physicality of currency, and with it, one of the last vestiges of control that most nations have over their currency. The reason for this is simple. Today, it is possible to set up foreign exchange transfer accounts in which a given currency is in Yen, or Euros, or Pounds, and draw upon them as readily as you can a US funds account. You can set up a crypto account in much the same way, and can even, with some creative work, set up accounts that let you play currency arbitrage across multiple such accounts. If Amazon, Google, Microsoft, Apple or Facebook (or their counterparts in other countries) set up their own digital currency, you could do the same thing. Amazon is actually creating a highly synergistic ecosystem that is nearly a full bore economy in its own right.

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In ten to twenty years time your paycheck could very well be made in private e-currency rather than a country’s native currency, which will send shockwaves in political circles. GETTY Put yourself ten years in the future. Amazon (as an example) puts out a cryptocurrency called the bezo (one bezo, two bezos, ….). You can continue to set up a US dollar account for Amazon prime, but you can also open up a bezos account, based upon a blockchain like construct under the control of Amazon. Prices begin to creep up when measured in US dollars, because the US economy has for the most part had net positive price inflation even during recessions, but prices in bezos stay fixed. Other companies look at this and offer the option of paying their employees in bezos. Some are resistant, but especially younger employees take the plunge, and after a while, older employees see that their net buying power continues to decline while the ones in the Amazon ecosystem are seeing wage power stability, and you see a shift as older employees begin to do the same thing. Other companies do this on their own, but discover that they don’t have quite enough people in their network to maintain stability, and so they reach out and affiliate themselves with the Amazon network. Banks have taken notice, and all of a sudden you see Amazon currency replacing the US Dollar in more and more transactions, many of them for millions or even billions of dollars. And then Amazon moves the Amazon Currency Network to the Cayman Islands. Overnight, the United States sees 35% of its tax base disappear. Too many people are no longer using US Dollars for transactions. The US Debt, which has been a ticking time bomb for decades, goes off as the US can no longer even pretend to service its deficits, let alone the total debt. States, given the conundrum of having a central Federal government that has become increasingly hostile and demanding (while providing less and less value for the tax money that their citizenry have paid) vs. working with a more stable currency and more autonomy, begin to think the unthinkable at a policy level: choosing to join a different political alliance based upon a common protocol for sharing currencies.

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One very distinct possibility of the intermixing between private and public e-currencies is the possibility that it could very well exacerbate an already growing divide along geopolitical lines. GETTY Another scenario can be envisioned. Recently, Walmart announced that they had a patent on a new blockchain currency, with the implications that they would be issuing a currency within the relatively near future. Amazon and Walmart are seen as competitors in the general goods sector, and while there is some overlap they tend to service different regions (and their customers often have very divergent political leanings). Over time you end up with two competing currencies, the Bezo and the Walton. Each of which provides a premium within their respective networks and a double penalty within the opposite network — the double being the fact that in order to convert from Bezos to Waltons, you would have to convert one currency to USDs and then to the other currency, with fees at each transaction point (something often happens in existing currency exchanges, where you have to find a common currency to exchange between two different currencies that don’t otherwise have exchange rates). Over time, the economies diverge, with frustrations mounting as the Bezo and the Walton respond to different economic strategies, and changes in political power in Washington DC bring with it a distinct preference for one currency or the other, with all that this implies for policy. Attempting to peg either of the private currencies to the dollar ends up with a situation similar to that which the European Union experience in 2008, when economic policy that was right for the northern countries with strong industrial bases proved ruinous for the southern countries that were primarily agrarian in nature (and is in fact a part of the current problem between red and blue America). What is likely to happen in this scenario is the rise of compacts — agreements between states that standardize upon specific policies regarding economic action, taxation, representation, immigration, public programs, defense, ecological policy, education and so on. Put another way, the currency networks that emerge (and it is likely they will be networked, not just one single currency) will begin looking and acting more and more like autonomous countries. With this comes the reduction of power in Washington, DC and the federal government as states hew more closely to their compact alliances. Now, to be clear, these are both hypothetical scenarios, and I’m using Amazon and Walmart here just to illustrate the point. Nor are these the only scenarios that may play out. It’s also worth noting that what is at issue is not so much cryptocurrency by itself as it is the ability of currency networks to effectively capture the tax base of parts or all of a country. Will this result in civil war? Hard to say. We may very well end up in a situation where the US becomes a Confederation along the lines of Canada, with a weaker central government, a common defense agreement and stronger regional blocs. The US may split peacefully into several distinct regions based upon the degree of economic connectivity. It’s possible that smarter heads prevail and some agreement is worked out to keep the status quo. However, the likelihood of that decreases the more that mechanisms for separation get implemented, and eCurrencies, whether national based or privately based, have the potential to exacerbate an already stressed situation.

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One of the major issues that most eCoins have is that they are still highly unstable, due to a comparatively small pool of investors, the potential for volatile speculation, and the potential that a government could make such transactions illegal. GETTY The primary mitigating factor from this happening now is the lack of stability of crypto-currencies, which is something of a chicken and egg problem. Stability ultimately comes from the number of participants involved, which in turn determines the degree to which speculation can take place within a currency. Speculation and stability are counter-weighted — most speculators prefer an asset class to be volatile, because such volatility can make for higher returns with less capital, though it can also lead to higher losses. You can speculate with stable currency (as George Soros managed to do successfully against the British pound in the 1970s) but it requires deep pockets and a great deal of leverage, and being unsuccessful can ruin you. Bitcoin and other crypto-currencies are still very unstable primarily because they lack both the installed base of users and because they are not yet fully convertible or redeemable. It is arguable whether any of the first generation of ICOs will ever meet that bar alone, though that changes once you begin seeing mergers and adoptions between ICOs and large financial or network concerns. This also moots one of the other major selling points that ICO promoters themselves try to make. No currency is going to survive if transactions in that currency remain anonymous, and keeping such transactions anonymous will become increasingly difficult over time. The reason for this is relatively simple — any transaction has real world implications, those implications can be tracked, and once one thread of a transaction begins to get picked apart, then it becomes possible to determine how these connect to other transactions. Government opacity (which is one form of anonymity) will keep many existing ICOs from ever being recognized as legitimate, and may very well be seen as perfect channels for money laundering and black market transactions, putting these ICOs under deep scrutiny. It is likely that currencies based upon (semi-) transparent block-chains (something you’re increasingly seeing developed by financial institutions) will likely overtake the anonymous block-chains currently being deployed.

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The future of finance (and of bank accounts) may very well be that a typical account is, in fact, an index made up of different e-currencies, both public and private. GETTY In the longer term (fifteen to twenty years), it is likely that the average consumer will likely not interact much at all with ICOs directly. Instead, what I see happening is that banks (and bank-like-entities, such as credit unions) will controls portfolios of currencies and accounts will then consist of baskets of different coins on various networks. Consumers can then determine the mix of their coin holdings, and can designate the default currencies they wish to be paid in (or pay out) when they make a financial transaction. However, at the micro-level, these networks and baskets will be treated in much the same way national currencies do today, with the added wrinkle that these private currencies can push and pull on the national currencies at a level unprecedented until now. What happens when the Bezo replaces the Japanese Yen (or the US Dollar) as the primary instrument for carry trades. What if the Iranian eDinar becomes the preferred currency for pricing oil, or an international incident causes investors to buy up Chinese eYuan and sell the USD, raising the potential for price increases in the United States (or vice versa). What will almost certainly happen is that the distinction between international corporations and nations, already somewhat blurry, will erode even more with time. Businesses will increasingly find themselves having to establish comprehensive foreign policies, fielding security forces and dealing with issues that traditionally have been the domain of countries. At the same time, fundamental questions, including the deceptively difficult one of what constitutes citizenship, will become pressing sooner than we’d like to believe. The upshot of this is that Bitcoins and related electronic currencies are likely here to stay, will become progressively more influential in both political and economic policy as they become more stable, and will almost certainly introduce stresses and potential breaking points in economies globally throughout the twenty-first century.
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AMA with Tezos on ARK slack

boldninja
All welcome @breitwoman (Kathleen) and @rawzeee (Ross) from Tezos.com - today they will answer any of your questions regarding their upcoming project
breitwoman By way of introduction, I am Kathleen Breitman, the CEO of the company which created Tezos. I am tag teaming this with @rawzeee, who works for the Swiss Foundation which will be responsible for running the crowdsale later this month. Ross will handle crowdsale-specific questions.
rawzeee Hello! Greetings from Zug!
jamiec79 :wave:
breitwoman Very jealous of Ross right now, Zug is gorgeous
techbytes Welcome.
rawzeee I saw a man playing an alphorn in front of UBS today. Most Swiss thing I could've imagined possible.
arkvader Greetings from far far away....
tranzer Hi Tezos! I have 1st question, by the looks of it Tezos will be in OCaml right? Why did you decide on OCaml? Are there any advantages over other languages?
mike Hi Kathleen and Ross, good to see you.
moobox hello Tezos people
breitwoman @tranzer great question. we wrote the protocol in OCaml. It was a confluence of a few things... Pragmatically, we found a great team with an emphasis on OCaml based in France and Arthur (CTO) is a French national so it was possible to work with them pretty seamlessly. On the technical side, OCaml is a great PL for writing code that can later be formally verified. Security and consistency of execution are two principles we tried to optimize for and OCaml lends itself well to those goals. See also section 1.4: https://tezos.com/static/papers/position_paper.pdf (edited)
dr10 hello tezos
breitwoman howdy all!
dr10 How would you shortly & easy-to-understand sum-up the advantages of TEZOS to magazines and non-crypto people?
tranzer What consensus system will you use? Like PoS or some hybrid? Will there be any rewards for signing blocks?
breitwoman My TL;DR runs on two talking points -- Tezos is a new blockchain that aims to create a robust governance model by allowing token-holders to come to consensus on protocol upgrades but also preserve rules over time by using mathematical proofs. Unlike previous blockchains, it can deploy upgrades to the network in an elegant and seamless way.
@tranzer we have our own POS algo. We have nominal inflation in the protocol to incentivize participation.
dr10 So in easy words, Tezos is built to easily adapt to any technic innovations?
breitwoman @dr10 yes, it was borne out of the first alt coin craze when everyone deployed a new token to instantiate even the most marginal improvement
dr10 okay
breitwoman Tezos wants to preserve network effects while keeping pace with innovation
dr10 Your whitepaper has very tech-heavy language. So I'd like to ask questions that are stupid and simple. :smile: What are the three crypto-currencies that are most similar to yours and yet why is Tezos different?
breitwoman Yeah, the position paper is more accessible
dr10 yeah i've read them all
breitwoman 1. Decred. Though they don't push automatic upgrades and they can't introspect on the protocol. 2. Dash. Though they also don't push automatic upgrades, can't introspect, and I think their funding model is a little backwards. 3. Ethereum has a lot of similar technical goals but no formal, on-chain governance model. We made our protocol with a bigger emphasis on formal verification and security.
someonesomeone Hi guys!
dr10 thank you! and hi someone :smile:
In your position paper you state "Tezos truly aims to be the last cryptocurrency." No matter what innovations other protocols produce, it will be possible for Tezos stakeholders to adopt these innovations" - Can Tezos implement any future innovations within its code? Wether its a new programming code, artificial intelligence or implementing big data of anything?
i wondered about that
i am a no-coder so I dont grasp everything
tranzer How much do you aim to raise in your ICO will there be any minimum or maximum? Will it be normal proportional auction or fixed price per token?
breitwoman @dr10 obviously limitations to anything that a blockchain can do... it can't solve poverty or hunger, but we made the code with a very modular design that allows for a lot of flexibility
someonesomeone @breitwoman do you plan on doing a smartbridge with Ark? Or any other partnerships with them? :wink:
dr10 yeah but I am wondering about future innovations like artificial intelligence, if that can somehow be implemented.
breitwoman @smartbridge good question. I like Ark but I'm not familiar enough with what they're up to... open to all sorts of things though!
dr10 My theory is that these future innovations will be interconnected by cryptocurrency
breitwoman @dr10 So, our CTO is a bona fide expert in AI and he doesn't think there are a lot of synergies with AI and blockchains
dr10 What is block target time? What is transaction speed? How many confirmations are needed? Couldnt see that / find that... maybe I oversaw :smile:
breitwoman but we'll keep our eyes peeled
dr10 okay
someonesomeone @breitwoman cool. Ark is doing a great job from what I can gather and I am pretty sure that I will also invest into your ICO, since your project also looks very interesting
breitwoman @dr10 I think that's all referenced in the white paper, which was recently updated!
soporificprose Can you answer Tanzer... I have same questions.
breitwoman That's a good question for @rawzeee
dr10 okay, maybe I oversaw. I have read them all. no problem
In your Whitepaper you state "Bitcoin, Ethereum, Cryptonote, etc. can all be represented within Tezos by implementing the proper interface to the network layer." Does this mean you try to interconnect all those cryptocurrencies? (edited)
breitwoman @dr10 we're targeting 1 minute between blocks. We haven't set a blocksize yet, but we'll her on the side of caution at first. It's better to raise the blocksize through the amendment mechanism once we are confident in the network's throughput.
jakethepanda Will users be able to issue asset tokens and build on top of Tezos?
breitwoman @dr10 no, that's more like Cosmos... a different but cool project
dr10 ark is doing that too
:smile:
rawzeee There is no minimum or maximum, though if only a few million were raised stakeholders would be asked whether or not they wanted to offer another TGE (Token Generation Event) to newcomers. Fixed price of 1 BTC to 5000 XTZ (tezzies), plus a descending bonus from 20% to 0% in 5% intervals every 400 BTC blocks. The entire TGE lasts 2000 BTC blocks. tranzer How much do you aim to raise in your ICO will there be any minimum or maximum? Will it be normal proportional auction or fixed price per token? Posted in #trading_altcoinsToday at 7:12 PM
dr10 I didnt find on that one, or didnt look too deep. What are the references of you and your team members? On what projects did you work before?
breitwoman @jakethepanda yes, they will but we think it's a better idea to propose those features that you'd find in an appcoin as a first class citizen
rawzeee Yes, was typing the answer up! It's posted now. soporificprose Can you answer Tanzer... I have same questions. Posted in #trading_altcoinsToday at 7:15 PM
breitwoman @dr10 I'm a pretty open book... I've worked in finance at a hedge fund and a VC, then in consulting... Arthur worked in high frequency trading for many years at places like Goldman and Morgan. Our developers are very academic
dachshund what type of role/influence do your initial investors (polychain, etc) have in the overall governance of the network, if any
dr10 What is the Payment for ICO? Paying in ETH or BTC or any other and how much will one Token cost?
breitwoman Technically, none. We sold a nominal amount of tokens to a large group of people. They have the same status as any other participant but got a slight discount over the crowdsale price for tying up their capital for several months.
techbytes that include Tim Draper?
breitwoman I solicit their advice a lot though... it's a really savvy bunch and I was a one-woman band on the operational side.
raolin Hey Kathleen - has your team given anymore thought to the post ICO mission? Roadmap? Additional team expansion?
soporificprose Are they restricted from selling for a certain length of time?
breitwoman no
@raolin check out our outline at the end of our presentation https://www.tezos.com/static/papers/Tezos_Overview.pdf
tranzer How much was sold to those pre-ico funders?
breitwoman All in here guys: https://www.tezos.com/static/papers/Tezos_Overview.pdf 612k at an avg 31% discount
rawzeee I listed the BTC ratio above. It's 1 BTC for 5000 XTZ (tezzies) plus a bonus or lack thereof based upon time periods. If you choose to use fiat Bitcoin Suisse AG who is administering the TGE (check their rates and your jurisdiction) they will peg it to BTC. Ether is pegged to BTC and will be accepted at the median (from Poloniex, Kraken, and GDAX) of the last three trade prices utilizing the ETH/BTC pair before the timestamp of the Ethereum block at the time of contribution. It’ll be offered on a best-effort basis and for convenience. If you want certainty contribute with Bitcoin. Otherwise you accept the risk that the exchange rate you'll get may not be precisely what you see on the screen at the moment of your contribution. You may also use other coins via ShapeShift. (edited)
dr10 you will hit poloniex, kraken and gdax?
when?
rawzeee That is referring to the peg of ETH to BTC.
all XTZ are pegged to the BTC price for the TGE.
dr10 ah ok
rawzeee I'm an acronym storm over here!
dr10 Is there already some plan or future business relationship with merchants, exchanges or anything that Tezos could be used as a payment method? Anything you want to share already?
dachshund What were your considerations when deciding to make the ICO un-capped? Any concerns regarding the impact there could be on the price once this starts trading (i.e. no price discovery)
breitwoman @dr10 we've been talking to two exchanges for several months. I'm pretty confident Tezos won't have trouble on that front. I have two partnerships in the works that I'm excited about but shouldn't discuss yet.
soporificprose Curious whether pre-ICO investors paid with BTC or fiat?
breitwoman @dachshund it's primarily about fairness and distribution.
ryano Are you familiar with BOScoin? They once were also using ocaml not sure if they stuck with that. Any comments on the benefits relative to each other
breitwoman @soporificprose fiat
dr10 Can everyone that holds a Tezos token vote on a proposal? Do they have to pay or temporaily lock in the Tokens? How does it work? It sounds like everyone can vote directly, right?
ryano Also i thought Tezos was using delegate proof of stake is this no longer or never was the case ?
breitwoman @ryano that's news to me. I have not gotten a straight answer from them on any technical questions
rawzeee The reasoning for the uncapped TGE here is that the platform is almost entirely done (not an ICO for a white paper) and it is desired that a robust network is built rather than a few fast fingers buying up the entire TGE in minutes or hours. This is particularly important given how governance will work on Tezos.
breitwoman @ryano we are using delegated proof of stake, @dr10 that means you can delegate your responsibilities to someone else if you don't want to be an active participant
dr10 I see
What is the Prediction Market about that you want to implement regarding "Futarchy"? I didnt get that right away
mike Tezos form of DPoS looks very similar to proxy voting, like Liquid Democracy.
breitwoman @mike yes, it is
good catch
soporificprose So their 30% discount was based on the price of BTC at that point? That would make it a much bigger actual discount yo current BTC to 5,000 TZE
breitwoman @soporificprose pardon? no, it was all denominated in dollars
the sale is denominated in BTC
mike I want to add that to Ark at some point as well.
dr10 What is the practical advantage to decentralized, atomated upgrades - compared to lets say Litecoin's Segwit Process?
breitwoman @dr10 yeah I'd read this piece from Robin Hanson first http://mason.gmu.edu/~rhanson/futarchy.html ... but basically you'd run a predicition market with a prompt like "What do you think would be the best feature for Tezos" with many choices and whatever gets the popular vote would be implemented.
dr10 And this predicting/voting will happen inside the wallet?
mike ryano has some very interesting ideas on ranked voting. Have you looked into ways to combine ranked with proxy voting?
breitwoman @dr10 we think defaults matter. upgrading protocols is cumbersome in existing blockchain implementations and it causes stasis
tranzer Is wallet and whole network already developed (since you said platform is ready) ?
sibars @rawzeee Sorry newbie question: Can you please explain in details how the TGE will work on day one?... I download the wallet fist, send you my BTC and then you send me the Tezzies?
breitwoman @mike not closely. we think our first implementation, a straight vanilla two phased vote, is too simplistic. I'd like to discuss more sophisticated mechanisms if you've thought them through!
I know Arthur loves him some futarchy but I'm not as big of a fan
mike that would be a great discussion, look forward to exploring voting systems with you. we plan to try them on bridged chains which can be run as experiments.
breitwoman @mike that's awesome
dr10 xD
Tezos focusses also on faster smart contracts as I understood, right?
breitwoman @dr10 more secure, not necessarily faster
dr10 okay
breitwoman our smart contract language, Michelson, was created with formal verification in mind
mike That named after the Michelson of Michelson-Morley Interferometer? (edited)
dr10 And it uses ZeroCash as privacy mechanism? Or the whitepaper only compared to it and you use something different? I couldnt identify that
breitwoman @mike you got it! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_A._Michelson Wikipedia Albert A. Michelson Albert Abraham Michelson (surname pronunciation anglicized as "Michael-son", December 19, 1852 – May 9, 1931) was an American physicist known for his work on the measurement of the speed of light and especially for the Michelson–Morley experiment. In 1907 he received the Nobel Prize in Physics. He became the first American to receive the Nobel Prize in sciences. (177kB)
dachshund is there something similar to "gas" in tezos that controls for computation of each program, or how do you get around that?
rawzeee @sibars No worries at all. There is a dedicated TGE site (register for updates at www.tezos.com). It'll guide you through the process. You'll generate a paper wallet (easy click through) with seed words. You can save it to a drive and/or print it (probably most secure). You'll verify your wallet number and password you created to generate it, then make your purchase to your wallet #. You can then verify it and make sure it's reflected in the wallet. It'll be simple and easy with a nice interface.
breitwoman @dr10 not yet but Zooko is an advisor and we have spoken about integration. we are more interested in STARKs, the next gen of zero-knowledge
dr10 I see
breitwoman @dachshund yes, we have the concept of gas as well
dr10 I guess you already answered that:
In your Whitepaper you say: Crypto-currencies suffer from the same fate as smartphones which are incompatible with one another; they derive their value from a network effect, or the number of users who have given it value. - ARK will connect all Crypto-currencies by SMARTBRIDGING. Can you imagine working with ARK Smartbridge in your protocol aswell?
yeah you did :smile:
sibars @rawzeee Thanks :)
dr10 More secure Smart Contracts, automatic upgrades in a DPoS model. Any other main focusses or any other attributes you want to innovate or improve compared to other cryptos?
tranzer So will Tezos offer assets on their blockchain like ethereum?
breitwoman @dr10 well, I think that covers the main talking
@tranzer we can, but we think it's more powerful to integrate at the protocol level
dachshund how has traction been within the developer community? I imagine there isn't a limitless pool of developers with the required technical expertise, so you must be expecting to take away from other networks?
mike This is a good overview as well, for those who haven't seen it, https://tezos.com/static/papers/Tezos_Overview.pdf (edited)
geops This all sounds great. The only thing that bothers me is the 1min block time. That seems like a step back compared to modern blockchains. Any goals to improve that?
breitwoman @dachshund we have a very powerful core team. we think our choice of programming language was a good magnet and filter effects. we haven't sourced from other blockchain communities
@geops yeah, that's all pretty flexible
tranzer What is your budgeting plan if you get like 20m how long will that be for? 5 years? More?
geops If you look at integrating with ARK smartbridge tech, you'll sure get lots of investors from here :slightly_smiling_face:
breitwoman @tranzer we go over this a bit in our recent presentation: https://tezos.com/static/papers/Tezos_Overview.pdf
check out the second to last page
tranzer Yeah I'd like to see that as well geops, @fixcrypt is amazing developer from what I have seen so far
breitwoman @geops yeah, totally something we should explore. we're a small team so any partnerships or serious integration have been tabled for later
But I like the idea of ARK and I like what I've seen... so very open to this!
tranzer Must say I like what I'm hearing here will definately invest a few btc
dr10 yes me too
geops definitely good ideas
breitwoman Cool, glad to hear it!
dr10 I think the future of blockchains will be in partnerships too
tranzer dr10 I think so as well that is why I invested in ARK in first place too much competiting and too little cooperation (in other projects) (edited)
rawzeee Hooray! Happy y'all may participate in the TGE.
geops maybe you guys should sit down with @mike and @fixcrypt and discuss possible future collaborations. (edited)
mike Yes, I like the vision laid out by Andreas Antonopolis of many thousands or more of specialized tokens and chains for different applications.
tranzer OK so last question from me that 20% bonus will be for entire 400 first BTC blocks when you start?
jacob breitwoman: Quadratic voting might work for Tezos (http://ericposner.com/quadratic-voting/) ERIC POSNER Quadratic voting Glen Weyl has uploaded a new version of his paper, Quadratic Voting (written with Steven Lalley), to SSRN, which now includes the completed proofs. Quadratic voting is the most important idea for l… Dec 30th, 2014 at 3:57 PM
breitwoman good question for @rawzeee
rawzeee @tranzer yes, indeed!
breitwoman @jacob yes, that's something we've considered
mike Glad to see you have Johann Gevers on board, is he active with the foundation?
breitwoman we didn't want to be prescriptive with v1, so we made it very easy to understand
rawzeee So there is about two days to get that bonus. Then 15% for the same period and so on.
breitwoman @mike yes, he's the director. and he's awesome. total mensch and very philosophically committed to our project
rawzeee I actually had a meeting with Johann today in Zug.
mike Really like Monetas, glad to see there doing well, and the creation of the Zug crypto environment is fantastic.
breitwoman @mike we went through a lot of ups and downs while developing Tezos. basically nobody cared about us for a while, until the DAO basically. Johann always encouraged us to keep going.
yeah, the crypto valley is a brilliant concept
rawzeee It's pretty magical.
tranzer You living there?
breitwoman @tranzer I'm US-based
rawzeee I'm just here for awhile. Also US-based.
nikandro Hi all, sorry if this has already been discussed, but have you spoken with any exchanges about adding Tezos?
breitwoman @nikandro yes, but it's a pretty convoluted process
one nice thing about tezos is that exchanges can act as delegates, which creates great incentives
nikandro Do you expect to have any clarity on that prior to the ICO?
tranzer How can exchanges act as delegates?
breitwoman not sufficient to make an announcement but it's really not something I worry about
techbytes really. Than perhaps Poloniex will add tezos. :slightly_smiling_face:
breitwoman @tranzer you can assign your validation to an exchange's address
nikandro While im interested in developing more than anything, I also understand that trading is a good tool for price discovery, which is critical.
ryano You shouldn't have any trouble getting on an exchange and would be a low priority area to spend your energy while in development
breitwoman they have to volunteer of course @nikandro of course, completely agree. Arthur was a market maker on Wall Street for 10 years
he thinks about this... a lot
@ryano that's what I've heard but people like to be assured that the token will have a marketplace, which is reasonable
It does take a lot of energy and I've been lagging on that front
Security and legal concerns were priority #1, we can iterate and grow the team pretty rapidly after the sale
Having the Foundation build out and assume responsibilities for promoting the protocol will be much better than my one woman band :slightly_smiling_face:
mike I'd expect Bittrex no problem.
jakethepanda First alt-coin you bought?
mike mastercoin
nikandro Sorry to push the matter, but does this mean there will be no marketplace for Tezos after the ICO?
breitwoman @nikandro apparently there will be a futures market running
mike they can't announce if they did - exchanges have NDAs disallowing coins from announcing, leaving it up to the exchanges.
djselery lol, even if they had an exchange lined up right now they probly couldnt talk about it
nikandro @djselery , right, and I'm not asking for specifics, just wondering if implementation is in the pipeline.
breitwoman @nikandro it is
insofar as we have had many conversations/back and forth and its been very positive
I can't say much else other than it's a cumbersome process
nikandro Okay, thanks @breitwoman
jakethepanda I'm sure Tezos will be on an exchange. I don't think that's even an issue.
nikandro @jakethepanda I agree, I was just inquiring about the timeline and I think @breitwoman cleared that up. Many thanks.
jakethepanda @breitwoman Pizza or Sushi?
breitwoman @jakethepanda that's relative to location. In NY, I prefer pizza. Everywhere else, sushi :slightly_smiling_face:
rawzeee ^ good answer.
jakethepanda Tesla or Mercedes?
mward So @breitwoman 5000 TEZOS = 1 btc?
and 20% discount for firat 400 btc raised
dachshund will you be growing the team in NY, is mostly based in europe?
nikandro For sure! In brooklyn, I do the dollar slice ride. Bike around to each vendor that sells dollar slices. yay, pizza!
breitwoman To drive? Mercedes. Tesla's still don't have the handle I like :slightly_smiling_face:
@dachshund they're based in Europe, primarily but I don't have any plans to leave the US
sibars by the way, who designed the Tezos logo?
rawzeee @mward no. 400 is the BTC blocks mined for the first bonus period; it's a time thing. But the ratio you've cited is correct. And then the bonus rate decreases by 5% every 400 blocks until 2000 BTC blocks are mined. (edited)
breitwoman It's a character we found by looking through some libraries. I think it's a TZ symbol from a language that uses that combination often
mward @rawzeee when will it start?
rawzeee Though not a discount. It's a bonus.
May 22nd at 6am UTC.
mward thank you
breitwoman Hey guys, I have to hop on a call in a little. 2 more questions and I'll have to wrap this up!
moobox I don't have a question but i wish your group bon chance or however the French say .
tranzer So little women in here stay a little longer :sob:
ryano Thanks for hanging out and answering questions!
jakethepanda Thanks @breitwoman
http://slack.tezos.com/
breitwoman @moobox vielen dank
@tranzer haha, I'll be back!
moobox salutes like Benny Hill
rawzeee The subreddit is where a lot of discussion happens too: https://reddit.com/tezos reddit tezos.com • tezos reddit: the front page of the internet
techbytes Great AMA session. Thanks for stopping by and answering all the questions. Good luck on the project and I look forward to investing.
breitwoman @ryano thanks for having me! and the very cordial convo
boldninja @breitwoman thank you for taking the time for this AMA - I was just lurking, but all what I would ask was answered. I wish you all the best with ICO and I hope ARK and Tezos cooperate in the future.
breitwoman Thanks guys! Yeah, feel free to bolster our Reddit
mward Aurrevoir!
dr10 thank you very much :smile:
rawzeee Yes, thanks much everyone! So long!
breitwoman @boldninja great to hear it!
@dr10 thanks for the solid qs, really appreciate it
dr10 np :smile:
mike Thanks for stopping by, both of you, and taking the time to chat with us.
look forward to participating in Tezos.
submitted by Jarunik to ArkEcosystem [link] [comments]

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